The Hippie side of the boomer generation were the culprits. I’m a boomer. I wanted no change to my beloved Church. But they changed it anyway without our permission or consent and gave us something inferior telling all it was the same Church as before.
Boomers are NOT anti-authority. They were all so happy to take the clot-shot and pushed it on everyone else with 'Trust the science'🙄. When it is convenient, they reject authority, but when it makes less work for them they are all to happy to accept it. This is true of people in general but I think this was the first generation that was brought up/indoctrinated to reject any and all suffering.
Part of that is true. The parents of Baby Boomers who grew up during the Great Depression and WWII wanted to give their children a peaceful, happy life. They saw a lot of suffering and privation in their younger years (especially immigrants from Europe). And also as young adults coming into the workforce.
The boomers were simply the first victims of the liturgical revolution. Do the arithmetic : we were in high school or first year college at the oldest and the majority of us were still in elementary or middle school when all of the nonsense became establishment. Even before the council, the seminaries were already malforming our priests and these young men were our religious role models in the 60s and 70s. The history of the collapse of the faith is far more complicated than just blaming "boomers". In my reading of it, the revolution at the council and right afterwards was only possible because of the vast modernist infiltration of the Seminaries and Catholic academia which had taken place in the decades before. Without the Internet we were hard pressed to find alternative voices. Imagine getting through the Covid event without the Internet! Most of us, even those who went to university were not hippies. And most of us never went to college and went straight into the trades and the labor force. If you have the true Catholic faith it is probably because some "boomers" helped to preserve it for you. The spiritual war goes on in every generation.
I agree with this but….. The Greatest Generation Our parents weren’t old when this happened . They actually thought it was good . They were upset that Paul 6 wrote Humane Vitae was written telling the boomers about abortion and birth control They encouraged their Boomer children . I was shocked hearing them. They came from a depression and thought their Boomers should SUCCEED IN THE WORLD . They also didn’t fight Prayer being out of schools . They were SILENT ! So it’s actually 2 generations . They were famous for saying “ why have big families we didn’t have birth control . They pushed Boomers to be selfish ! I witnessed it. Makes me sad but it’s what happened . I remember my father saying THE HIPPIES WOULD DESTROY AMERICA .. here we are . They also believed too many women died from coat hanger abortions which was a lie. It took me decades to convince my mother about abortion being wrong , we had a special needs cousin who brought joy to the whole family, one day I said to my mom , do u wonder why we don’t See kids like Jackie anymore ? She said I know how come? I told her ultra sounds can say what they are and the parents decide to abort. She was shocked she was in her 90’s then. 2 days later she cried and said I was ignorant, I asked why she answered Abortion . I’m grateful she got it before she passed away at 100. God is so good .
I wish there was just a "silent mass" on the weekends for those of us that are totally burnt out from the performance. Btw, I think the same attitudes you are describing have descended on the Latin Mass. Thankfully the mass won't change, but the communities have greatly become very self centered, very performative. Same old story repeating with the newest church fad.
Maybe you answered this, but in other discussions we have had, you point to the Magesterium being the engine that course corrects. Has it been silent on these things that you are concerned about? I can’t imagine you are the only Catholic who was felt this way. If the Vatican II issued a directive about how worship should be conducted, has it issued a clarifying statement to speak into these issues?
If you were Protestant I would say talk to the pastor or find a different church but you guys have a very different framework. So I’m curious here, because you have very passionately pointed to the power of the Mag. To have authority over interpretation and clarification so what’s their stance on this?
fair question. criticizing poor implementation after Vatican II isn't the same as rejecting the Magisterium itself.
Catholics can distinguish between dogmatic teaching authority, faith, morals and governance, liturgical discipline, implementation, pastoral decisions, local abuses, formation, etc. even Rome has addressed liturgical abuses repeatedly over the decades.
Vatican II called for reverence, preservation of Latin and Gregorian chant retaining pride of place. So what I'm talking about is the poor implementation after the council. What we see in practice went beyond what the documents themselves actually said.
Pope Benedict spent years trying to recover continuity , reverence, sacred music and proper liturgy.
So from my perspective the argument isn't “the Church failed therefore the Magisterium is false" but rather that human beings can badly implement legitimate reforms. I mean it's a difficult task over decades and across thousands of parishes and dioceses.
Change the liturgy. Change the worship. Change the belief.
This was so patently obviously planned destruction of the Church. Yes, we (will) know them by their fruits. It is rotten.
In the corporate world, "New Coke" was introduced, (post Vat II liturgy) due to the "Pepsi Challenge" (protestantism), but the divergence occurred when Coca Cola realized, "We've made a COLOSSAL mistake!". The market dictated, and management responded. What did Church "management" do? By every, single matrix, Vatican II has been an utter trainwreck. Yet, here we are with St. John Paul kissing a Koran, Benedict not having the energy to continue his papacy---yet living ten years beyond his abdication, Francis (ugh), and Leo (Francis II).
Satanic. Planned destruction. More paving material for the floor of hell.
If you really want to be offended by something then why not about how Catholics changed their Judaism?
For those who don't know- Jesus was an observant Jew who went to synagogues and Temple... you know with Torah reading, Shema, Amidah, Tefillah and all that jazz :)
This is a PS of sorts. So who was Annibale Bugnini (not sure of the spelling) and why this overwhelming need to gut the Mass and Divine Office by him. I heard he was the architect of the new Mass. Why did P6 go along with these wholesale changes? Important questions as Bugnini did to the Mass what Cranmer did for Anglicanism when he recreated the Anglican service stripped from the Catholic Mass.
You are on to something here: it was on purpose. Comment from FLRevert is 100% correct and provable. Let's not forget that Montini permitted all of this crap and that it is NOT only about the liturgy. Vatican II changed doctrine as well. If you think otherwise, look at what happens if you criticize the 'pastoral' council.
Coincidentally Peter Kwasniewski in his Tradition and Sanity has an article about this very thing but I haven’t read it yet but often his articles end abruptly to entice you to go to his paywall “Pelican”
The Hippie side of the boomer generation were the culprits. I’m a boomer. I wanted no change to my beloved Church. But they changed it anyway without our permission or consent and gave us something inferior telling all it was the same Church as before.
Boomers are NOT anti-authority. They were all so happy to take the clot-shot and pushed it on everyone else with 'Trust the science'🙄. When it is convenient, they reject authority, but when it makes less work for them they are all to happy to accept it. This is true of people in general but I think this was the first generation that was brought up/indoctrinated to reject any and all suffering.
Part of that is true. The parents of Baby Boomers who grew up during the Great Depression and WWII wanted to give their children a peaceful, happy life. They saw a lot of suffering and privation in their younger years (especially immigrants from Europe). And also as young adults coming into the workforce.
Our leaders did it, not the faithful. But groovy picture brother. Peace and love. Jesus luvs us.
The problem with music is that it is often insensitive to liturgy. Music must serve the liturgy but most musical directors are tone deaf to that fact.
I just read your article to husband. He said to me, “this sounds like you”. Lol. Thank you very much and I am sharing your article. God bless you!
The boomers were simply the first victims of the liturgical revolution. Do the arithmetic : we were in high school or first year college at the oldest and the majority of us were still in elementary or middle school when all of the nonsense became establishment. Even before the council, the seminaries were already malforming our priests and these young men were our religious role models in the 60s and 70s. The history of the collapse of the faith is far more complicated than just blaming "boomers". In my reading of it, the revolution at the council and right afterwards was only possible because of the vast modernist infiltration of the Seminaries and Catholic academia which had taken place in the decades before. Without the Internet we were hard pressed to find alternative voices. Imagine getting through the Covid event without the Internet! Most of us, even those who went to university were not hippies. And most of us never went to college and went straight into the trades and the labor force. If you have the true Catholic faith it is probably because some "boomers" helped to preserve it for you. The spiritual war goes on in every generation.
I didn’t pin it all on the boomers. I was talking about the cultural air they breathed and what that did to the mass.
I agree with this but….. The Greatest Generation Our parents weren’t old when this happened . They actually thought it was good . They were upset that Paul 6 wrote Humane Vitae was written telling the boomers about abortion and birth control They encouraged their Boomer children . I was shocked hearing them. They came from a depression and thought their Boomers should SUCCEED IN THE WORLD . They also didn’t fight Prayer being out of schools . They were SILENT ! So it’s actually 2 generations . They were famous for saying “ why have big families we didn’t have birth control . They pushed Boomers to be selfish ! I witnessed it. Makes me sad but it’s what happened . I remember my father saying THE HIPPIES WOULD DESTROY AMERICA .. here we are . They also believed too many women died from coat hanger abortions which was a lie. It took me decades to convince my mother about abortion being wrong , we had a special needs cousin who brought joy to the whole family, one day I said to my mom , do u wonder why we don’t See kids like Jackie anymore ? She said I know how come? I told her ultra sounds can say what they are and the parents decide to abort. She was shocked she was in her 90’s then. 2 days later she cried and said I was ignorant, I asked why she answered Abortion . I’m grateful she got it before she passed away at 100. God is so good .
I wish there was just a "silent mass" on the weekends for those of us that are totally burnt out from the performance. Btw, I think the same attitudes you are describing have descended on the Latin Mass. Thankfully the mass won't change, but the communities have greatly become very self centered, very performative. Same old story repeating with the newest church fad.
Maybe you answered this, but in other discussions we have had, you point to the Magesterium being the engine that course corrects. Has it been silent on these things that you are concerned about? I can’t imagine you are the only Catholic who was felt this way. If the Vatican II issued a directive about how worship should be conducted, has it issued a clarifying statement to speak into these issues?
If you were Protestant I would say talk to the pastor or find a different church but you guys have a very different framework. So I’m curious here, because you have very passionately pointed to the power of the Mag. To have authority over interpretation and clarification so what’s their stance on this?
fair question. criticizing poor implementation after Vatican II isn't the same as rejecting the Magisterium itself.
Catholics can distinguish between dogmatic teaching authority, faith, morals and governance, liturgical discipline, implementation, pastoral decisions, local abuses, formation, etc. even Rome has addressed liturgical abuses repeatedly over the decades.
Vatican II called for reverence, preservation of Latin and Gregorian chant retaining pride of place. So what I'm talking about is the poor implementation after the council. What we see in practice went beyond what the documents themselves actually said.
Pope Benedict spent years trying to recover continuity , reverence, sacred music and proper liturgy.
So from my perspective the argument isn't “the Church failed therefore the Magisterium is false" but rather that human beings can badly implement legitimate reforms. I mean it's a difficult task over decades and across thousands of parishes and dioceses.
Change the liturgy. Change the worship. Change the belief.
This was so patently obviously planned destruction of the Church. Yes, we (will) know them by their fruits. It is rotten.
In the corporate world, "New Coke" was introduced, (post Vat II liturgy) due to the "Pepsi Challenge" (protestantism), but the divergence occurred when Coca Cola realized, "We've made a COLOSSAL mistake!". The market dictated, and management responded. What did Church "management" do? By every, single matrix, Vatican II has been an utter trainwreck. Yet, here we are with St. John Paul kissing a Koran, Benedict not having the energy to continue his papacy---yet living ten years beyond his abdication, Francis (ugh), and Leo (Francis II).
Satanic. Planned destruction. More paving material for the floor of hell.
If you really want to be offended by something then why not about how Catholics changed their Judaism?
For those who don't know- Jesus was an observant Jew who went to synagogues and Temple... you know with Torah reading, Shema, Amidah, Tefillah and all that jazz :)
This is a PS of sorts. So who was Annibale Bugnini (not sure of the spelling) and why this overwhelming need to gut the Mass and Divine Office by him. I heard he was the architect of the new Mass. Why did P6 go along with these wholesale changes? Important questions as Bugnini did to the Mass what Cranmer did for Anglicanism when he recreated the Anglican service stripped from the Catholic Mass.
You are on to something here: it was on purpose. Comment from FLRevert is 100% correct and provable. Let's not forget that Montini permitted all of this crap and that it is NOT only about the liturgy. Vatican II changed doctrine as well. If you think otherwise, look at what happens if you criticize the 'pastoral' council.
PS I started reading. It ended at his paywall so don’t bother:)
Coincidentally Peter Kwasniewski in his Tradition and Sanity has an article about this very thing but I haven’t read it yet but often his articles end abruptly to entice you to go to his paywall “Pelican”
I hate the term "trad Inc." (Its annoyingly over-used in some circles) but it fits so perfectly for Dr. K and company (a paywall, really?!)
This is a rabbit hole worth going down but the conclusions that are reached by Pelican+ folks are disturbingly illogical so its just as well.
I do like some Dr. K’s stuff. He has done some interesting articles But this fixation with pay for play is irritating.
Bugnini's goal was to strip the liturgy of anything that offended his Protestant consultants.
That was part of the reason.